Martin's Mercurial Musings

A Facebook friend recently posted this comment, “We may cast the die, but the Lord determines how it falls.” I couldn’t resist a little prodding for some details and asked the question – “So, even if we ‘think’ we’re ‘doing’ something, the outcome of that something is already predetermined by God?”

I liked Tom’s response and have pasted it here:

God always knows the outcome of any event. However, he normally doesn’t control the direct consequences of any action. He can and sometimes does [control events] when asked but He’s in no way obligated to do so. Why would God create the laws of nature and [call] them good along with all creation by continually circumventing them?

[God] makes everything work together towards whatever purpose He has in mind. [For] example, all of creation was created by God to glorify Himself. Because that’s His will, it’s what will happen. The fuzzy line comes when we’re affected by God’s will.

Do we have free will? Yes. God will judge us all on what we do, whether good or bad. (2 Corinthians 5:10, also pretty much anywhere in Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel) To be just, a judge must punish the guilty party. If a robot were programmed to kill someone, who’d be punished – the robot or the programmer? The robot had no free will to choose either right or wrong, so [the robot would] be pardoned. The programmer did have the free will to choose and will be punished for his crime. In the same way, if we have no free will and God is truly just, he would [have to] condemn Himself for forcing us to do wrong. If that is the case, then God is not good. If God is not good, then we have no hope. For if the ultimate power in the universe takes pleasure in evil, nothing He says [could] be trusted. If He is [just], by his mercy we have hope through Jesus Christ. If He isn’t [just], we have no hope because the combined power of creation was created through Him and for Him, and He sustains it all. (Colossians 1:15-17)

Does God protect us from being affected by our choices in a bad way? No. If you steal something and are caught, you’ll be brought to justice. God delights in that. Because He saved you from eternal life in Hell by your faith in Jesus doesn’t mean He’s saved you from the worldly consequences of your actions. This doesn’t mean He can’t have mercy on you. [Rather], He has no obligation to [protect] you from the result of your own free will. He’s [given] you the Bible for the purpose of helping you avoid destroying yourself and to find true life.

However, [God] works all things to the good of those who love him. (Romans 8:28) If you love God and do something stupid, you will reap the consequences of your actions. God will then use that stupid action to eventually work for good in your life, not because of your wisdom, your strength, your righteousness, but BECAUSE YOU LOVE GOD.

The question [becomes]: are we living and acting from a love of God or an apathy or hatred of God? The answer has no bearing on the outcome of His plans, but they have every effect on what becomes of us.

I responded to Tom on how I liked the analogy of people employing various free-will combinations – such as the mixing of an acid and a base with the end result being that God ensures how those kinds of molecules will interact. However, something had earlier crossed my mind relating to God knowing in advance how everything will turn out. I ‘think’ Isaiah 5:1-5 infers God planting and cultivating a crop of grapes with the end result being something not anticipated – bad fruit. As such, can God be surprised at any given end result? If God is surprised at this particular end result in Isaiah, can believers claim that God fully knows each and every outcome of each and every circumstance, situation or decision one might make?

On that point, Open Theists claim that the future is at least partly open (unknown) to God except in those areas where God has determined exactly what the future will be. In any event, I would certainly agree with Tom’s earlier statements that A) we have free will, B) God doesn’t necessarily protect us from our bad decisions (or necessarily reap blessings upon us for good decisions we may make for that matter), and C) God can use all circumstances for His glory.

Perhaps unknowingly, Tom stated Calvinist thinking wherein he had previously said, “All you gotta do is let [God] take your junk.” I responded to Tom that he  might not actually have that opportunity to give his ‘junk’ to God because, according to Calvinism, God chooses whose ‘junk’ He’ll take. More to the point, God determines who’ll be forgiven for their ‘junk’ therefore determining who will and who will not be saved. So, to repeating Tom’s last statement for the comfort of my Arminian friends, “All you gotta do is give your ‘junk’ to [God] and He will forgive you.”

How about that – Calvinism, Arminianim, and Open Theism considerations are all nicely placed side by side in one fell swoop of love and togetherness. Peace be upon all my believing brethren (including you, Tim) for the coming year. Happy New Year!

dit dit dit dahhhh    dit dit dit dahhhh    dit dit dit dahhhh

CQ CQ CQ (that’s ham radio jargon for, “Anyone listening on this frequency?”)

CQ CQ CQ Brethren of Christian Clarity Review, come in please – over.

CQ CQ CQ Brethren of Christian Clarity Review, this is Martin’s Mercurial Musings, come in please – over.

Hmmm.  No response.  The Rev Timothy Elder, an honorably retired Presbyterian minister in the Gulf Coast Presbytery and blogger at Christian Clarity Review has claimed to be God’s messenger to the brethren regarding “created speech”.  Yet, could it be that there are no Christian Clarity Review brethren?  In other words, is Tim a “fellowship of one” without the benefit and blessings of being a part of a body of believers?

I rather doubt Tim has saved his most vitriolic “created speech” for me even if I had a bit of fun when I wrote this post – a take-off on Keith Olbermann’s “Worst Person in the World”.  Tim obviously has a sharp mind and appears well learned in Christian doctrine and church history.  I’ve always thought that the good news of the Christian faith brought about unity.  However, that’s not what I see in Tim’s writings.  Sadly, it’s hard for me to see where the love of God is revealed in Tim’s writings.

So, what’s the purpose of these posts pertaining to Tim Elder at Christian Clarity Review?  Frankly, I’m hard-pressed to believe the vitriolic “created speech” Tim spits out exemplifies the love of God and I don’t understand the motivation for Tim to write the things he does.  To that end, I’m told that light is the best disinfectant.  And so, it’s my hope that by bringing the light of day to Tim’s writings, others who are perhaps in a better position to evaluate the truth (or lack thereof) regarding Tim’s writings would do just that.

dit dit dit dahhhh    dit dit dit dahhhh    dit dit dit dahhhh

CQ CQ CQ

CQ CQ CQ Brethren of Christian Clarity Review, come in please – over.

CQ CQ CQ Brethren of Christian Clarity Review, this is Martin’s Mercurial Musings, come in please – over.

I hereby congratulate myself on the just-created weekly award of – drumroll, please – “Worst Arminian in the World“.  I am beholden to none other than Tim Elder at Christian Clarity Review for this great honor.  This first competition was keen.  Up for consideration were ‘bdrex’, ‘Bill’ and myself for commenting on Tim’s post that Arminians Are Not Christians.

Tim said of me:

• Another wicked soul pops in for a chat.
• The unforgivable sin is your default piety in particular Bob.
• You, like so many, are deceived that if you don’t make up a new ‘meaning’ from the text other than what it says as Word of God as Creating Speech/Jesus Christ, then you’re only a baby Christian.
• You sin happily and forcefully and call it being pious.
• That the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience now works in you is plain.
• You heard the same Word of God I did and the effect it had on you was to harden your heart and make you a vessel of wrath.
• You enjoy lying against God.
• You are all very polite as you supposedly ‘choose’ your various positions.
• There are literally thousands of blogs on which Lucifer is welcome. This isn’t one of them.
• You should surely be hired by any [A]rminian witch as their PR person.
• Your lies are always disguised as sombre [sic] wishes for fair discourse while accusing those who point out your lies of being mean spirited asses who do everything they do, supposedly like you, on purpose.
• It isn’t that I don’t understand. It’s that I do and I overtly don’t want the emotional common sense friendship or discourse of hardened sinners in addition to being blessed by God to not have to hear it.
• You can’t choose to believe what God is Saying through me as truth. No one has that ability.

Tim, I can think of no one more qualified than you to present these weekly awards.  We’ll all be anxiously awaiting the next Worst Arminian in the World!

To be considered for this award, prospective entrants must read any post on Tim’s blog and do one of the following:

• Make a comment
• Ask a question
• Challenge a premise
• Simply not understand various things such as created speech, et al

Now don’t be shy.  Hurry and submit your comments and questions to Tim’s blog.

Oh yes, mention my name or, better yet, link to this blog and you’ll be a shoe-in for Worst Arminian in the World.  Not only that, but you’ll also receive my warmest personal regards.

Best of luck to one and all in becomming the next Worst Arminian in the World!!!