I stated to a Calvinist that per the doctrine of election, it was a small percentage of people that God saves. The next thing I heard, “Prove it.”
I pulled out my cell phone and quickly Googled the world’s population and the total number of Evangelical Christians. At least, they’re the ones promoting the doctrines of grace. So, according to Wikipedia, there are ~660M Evangelical Christians out of a total world population of ~7,875M. I then explained that I thought it reasonable that only half of the 660M Evangelical Christians are actually born-again believers. My Calvinist friend said nothing. As such, I divided the total number of Evangelical Christians in half and then divided that number by the world population.
The formula used: (660M ÷ 2 ÷ 7875M).
This means that the total number of elect persons in the world only constitutes ~4.2% of people in the world. Seen from the other-way-around, God chooses not to save nearly 96% of his creation.
I exclaimed, “Isn’t this a rather puny number? God, per his simple decision could choose to save a lot more. That such a small a percentage of people are ‘elected’ seems indicative of God being arbitrary, capricious and stingy with his love and grace.” My Calvinist friend could only muster a simple “Hmph.”
9 thoughts on “Calvinist Admits God Chooses to Save Only 4% of All People”
Excellent point. In addition, I’ve spoken to some Calvinists that proclaim that everybody that died before Jesus died on the cross is burning in hell, because they never believed in Jesus, which they claim is the requirement to be saved. They actually think that one must first believe in Jesus, who hadn’t even been born yet, to be saved. They might make an exception for Abraham, and David, but not much else.
So, OT David gets in despite all the nasty things he did. I’d be curious to hear the logic as to why that is. Well, he wrote some nice Psalms and you and I only do a blog. Maybe that explains it.
As for David, probably something about being the Apple of God’s eye…I don’t know. LOL.
Oh, by the way, the Jehovah’s Witnesses used to say that only 144,000 (taken by Revelation chapter 7) Jehovah’s Witnesses will get to heaven. I can’t remember, but I think they used to keep track of their ROLL numbers, so when they approached the number, they had to rethink that philosophy a bit, and they read Matthew 5, in that the meek inherit the earth. I once had a JW friend who I debated with, and he told me, “I don’t want to go to heaven!”. I was taken aback by that statement, but that’s when I first heard the doctrine that yes, 144000 goes to heaven, the rest inherit the earth.
They are REPLACEMENT theology in that they think that the 144000 is Jehovah’s Witnesses, not Jews.
The Replacements? I’ve seen that movie and didn’t too much care for it. LOL
I’ve seen some of ‘Telltales’ videos re JW – and he, growing up as a JW and now claiming to be an atheist, just crucifies them. He can get a little testy and use some colorful language … but interesting all the same.
Ya, they’ve had a LOT of “End of Days” blunders going back to 1917 or so. Me, I’m a die hard Zionist, so unless we see a Temple in Jerusalem for the Jews to worship God again, when a fake Jewish savior (Anti-Christ) enters in, proclaiming that he’s God, as spoken by Daniel the prophet…I’m not worried. I’ll be long dead by the time that happens. But it’s entertaining. There is a LOT of End of Days NOW Christians out there, who think that the anti-Christ is the Pope, or some world leader in the UN, or EU, or even our own president. Hogwash. He’s gotta be a CUT Jew, for this is about a Messiah for the Jews, whom they will believe in. It is also my belief, that we won’t be here at all for Armegeddon, nor the Mark of the Beast, either. Seals 1-6, yes, but not seal 7. Seal #6 is the focal point for a timeline, and is mentioned by Peter in Acts 2, and Jesus in the end time chapters of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but Jesus never mentions the 7th Seal at all. After the 6th seal, is Revelation 7, which both Jesus and Peter mentions. Peter mentions the first part, Jesus mentions the last part. It’s a connect the dots. We are a long way from that time. But again, it’s entertaining to see they hype. But I feel sorry for the ones who buy off on the NOW stuff, and turn to be atheists because they were taught wrong. I really do.
I too have sympathy for Telltale and others like him. There’s serious pain, heartache and disappointment there. As to end-times, ugh, I avoid the book of Revelations and discussions of end-times like the plague. Focusing on that which is immediately in front of me and for which I’m responsible (I reject divine determinism / compatibilism) is enough to occupy my time. I appreciate your thoughts and comments.
Thank you, my friend. The stuff you are studying on Calvinism used to anger me. Not anymore. I KNOW the scriptures well enough to counter Calvinism, and many other ism’s, even if they don’t want to hear it. I’m content.
1 Corinthians 14:38
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
The study is really for YOU, not them. If you really reject divine determinism / compatibilism, using scripture alone, prove to YOURSELF why. When you are finally content, aka satified in your heart as to why you believe what you believe, then you will finally have that peace you seek. Until then…it’s gonna be a battle.
You hit a nail on the head. I freely admit that I write (as this requires me to think and contemplate) to work through and resolve theological constructs which seem so far apart. How some get to one side of the spectrum and others find their way – all using the same roadmap (the Bible) is frustrating to me. It just seems as though there ought to be more fundamental agreement as to doctrine. I don’t hide my antithesis to Calvinism. It’s real and palpable to me. And so, I’m dealing with this dilemma as best I can. I look forward to that contentment you express. But I’m just not there.